Comments by Brian Winters

Wasn't going to post, but getting feedback would help.

The girl and I had a moment in the office that was better than any other. Before walking out of the room, I turned and asked:

Me: "I have a question for you. You can say no. But how would you feel about meeting outside of here."
Her: laughs "Oh, so you don't hate me.
Me: turned and walking away with a grin "No I don't."

Her time at the office goes by. At some point we meet towards the end. It's worth mentioning that we had a better vibe. Conversation flowed more. Still nervous, but much less so after using Kratom. After handing her a timer for her last treatment I say:

Me: "Well don't keep me in suspense."
Her: playing a game on her iPhone and without looking up "I'm playing this game of ---."

That's it. After she's done with her treatment, she says thank you and walks out. Haven't heard or been reprimanded by management. So she didn't say anything... at all. But there was a response, and it didn't seem completely neutral. But, at the end of the day, no numbers were exchanged. Not sure if it's because she's Jewish, or the age difference, or maybe she didn't want to take the chance and make it awkward if things didn't work out. There were other signs I've dropped in the weeks past. It sucks. But, it doesn't have to make things awkward going forward. She said no without saying it.

Thoughts from professionals?

STICKING POINTS: Seems to be overthinking, being too logical, not being present, maintaining frame, being non-reactive, but also both understanding pick up theory/concepts while applying them in real time. The work environment is fast paced and requires a professional and objective approach. So transitioning from that to fun and flirty is challenging with everything else.

Let me help clear things up. I'm playing up as if she's annoying. Teasing her back and continuing the banter. However, there are certain things she does that causes me to overthink and not flow with the conversation. It's not that I'm taking it personally at all but struggling to manage the logistics. Overall, the way it's being handled is okay, but can be a lot better too.

Fair point on offering her number with no context. Especially with what I said, in the middle of a conversation, where it had no place. It seems man-to-woman than anything platonic. Another problem is creating appropriate conversation/context that could transition into sharing information with time constraints and without getting into trouble.

She comes in as scheduled. Walk into a semi-private room, sandwiched between two other rooms where other staff do their work (and can hear due to 4/5 walls), where she springs up in front of me talking about some game she's playing on her iPhone. There's some back and forth. Make the comment with a smirk, "you're so annoying." Some time passes before she says, "It's cute that you spend the first 20 minutes I'm here ignoring me." Again, throwing me off.

Come back in the room to set her up with work before attending to other patients. Demonstrate an exercise to her and she mentions something about me looking like I'm giving birth. She laughs. I act annoyed. More back and forth before giving a bit of a takeaway, "I'm trying not to give you my number." Her response... nothing. Not good or bad. But almost as if she didn't hear, and goes back to doing her thing, with me leaving for the next patient.

Her appointment starts to wind down. It's hard to get any time alone or out of earshot from anyone else. After setting her up with treatment... I'm stuck. There aren't any patients to take care of, but she's seated in the middle of the room, where eyes and ears get in the way. Try to make small talk, but it does nothing. Normally, towards the end of sessions, she becomes a bit distant. Even her goodbyes are brief and bland.

Worth noting she only comes in once per week. Now, she might have caught on to my intentions but lack of actions. It seems like there was a better vibe in the first few weeks until recently. Seems somewhat less. But even still. Exchanging info and building rapport outside of the office would probably be a lot better. Might just hand over my number on a post-it the next time and leave it at that.

ADDITIONAL CONTEXT:
• Asked me for my age in the beginning and made her guess.
• Talking about shows we like: ○ Seinfeld ○ The Office ○ Game of Thrones
• Took my picture one time while I was working. She might have asked me to pose but I can't remember. Not sure if this is relevant.
• She made a joke while I was outfitting her for an exercise, "That's right. Bow to your Khaleesi (Queen; reference from Game of Thrones)."
• Made eye contact and smiles at one or two vaguely inappropriate or sexual comments.
• IOIs: ○ initiates/re-initiates conversation when working together ○ laughs ○ playfully challenging ○ shit tests ○ proximity ○ smiles at me ○ makes glances out of the corner of my eye (I think)

You're both right. That's the mindset you should maintain. But you also know the challenges that come with game. It could be several factors that provide negative leveling behavior.

Also, finding out that she's 20 has made an impact. Like finding out the person you were flirting with this whole time is a celebrity and changing your frame and mindset negatively. Like a "don't fuck this up now" sort of way.

UPDATE: Summary, I choked. Sort of.

The girl shows up at a busy time in the office. Whatever time there is for any back and forth is short and could be measured in minutes. On top of that, privacy is lacking, making any sort of exchange of info hard.

However, the main sticking point was overthinking. Getting locked up in my head and looking for the opportune moment. Making myself come across more awkward and logical. So the vibe wasn't as on point as it had been in the past. Although there are still brief moments she'll say something to make me smirk. Like there's an invisible war going on with who can "one up" the other with witty banter.

Thing is, and maybe this is just me, it seems like she's caught on to this and might even be losing interest. Although I can't tell. But certain statements like this, "It's cute that you spend the first 20 minutes I'm here ignoring me," throw me off. Hard to keep track of everything, IOIs, push/pull, takeaways, and the "right moment" (or least shitty one), and so on. It's there, but a small window of time.

Going to regroup and focus more on getting my act together. Sleep, training, meditation, and the like. Having her on my mind is a case of oneitus that might be killing my chances.

Gotcha. We'll go with that. Thanks again, Alex.

Example: "What are your thoughts about witty banter with a handsome guy?" is decent go-to soft close for me.

The job is only a placeholder until something better. Which could be replaced in short order. If 10 years or so is reasonable. Then what's considered unreasonable. Never gave it much thought until now.

As in, "I know. What else is nice?" Unless it's exactly what you typed. Not sure how I'd follow up with her response. Which would more than likely be something like, "Oh?"