Comments by bitw91 ...

So, it relates to this video you made about a year ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_hwwZpCiLI .

The specific context for me was, at the time, I entered what you defined as "the point of no return" in this video i.e. girl back at my place, on my bed, making out but when I tried to escalate she grabbed my hand and wouldn't let me go there. There had been a whole build-up before this where a 3-4 week long interaction had been extremely sexual only for her to show LMR on the day of the date and make it clear it wasn't going down. After saying that I hadn't go that impression from the conversation, I simply rationally validated it, told her there was no pressure and we'd just see how the chemistry was...

Anyway, when I posted this - having seen your video - I was sure that I was experiencing backward rationalization because she pulled back, her response times fell off a cliff from several per day to a pretty deliberate once a day thing over the holiday period and the actual conversations went from sexual and high-energy to pretty boring, mundane, logical friendzoney stuff. So the question I was asking above that you're confused by was - is there a way to manage/deal with backward rationalization after having hit the point of no return to get things back on track or are you basically fucked when she does this?

However...

The circumstances and therefore, in a sense, the question has changed since I posted this thread. I'll stop short of posting that to avoid further confusion, but I'm very keen to get your advice on how to deal with where I'm currently at with things having actually panned out a lot more positively than I was expecting since, but for now...as you asked, I just wanted to clarify my question seeing as you asked and in case anybody else would find the answer helpful.

Thanks for this bro. I hadn't seen this blog post before but this is about dealing with LMR. I can see why it wasn't clear from what I wrote above but I'm talking about what you do when you've gone on the first date, sex didn't happen, backward rationalization IS happening...what do you do then to salvage the situation, try to get things back on track and secure a second date where you can hopefully rectify the situation.

Thanks Alex. In the midst of this, I discovered the new app - so downloaded and purchased the platinum package. Great work!

This particular situation actually subsided. She just replied in the morning...albeit with fairly blatant non-compliance where I was getting near total devotion before! I'll try to keep this short as possible while giving context, but I do have a follow-up question. The reason for this is backward rationalization.

The conversation has been a mix of conversational, flirty and very kinky-sexual then on the day of the date, after a month she totally blindsided me by declaring that she stays fully clothed on the first date. Now that would have been fine, but it was in response to the other big fuck up on my part of this whole thing which was based on the sexual conversation, I told her she could bring some of her own accessories over and she responded to that, pretty outraged. A bit of digging and she hits out with "I'm kinky but not easy" (after a month of kinky conversation and what I was gonna do to her/what she wanted me to do, etc...). Anyway, I made it clear after a certain point there were no expectations and we'd see how the chemistry was, but in terms of mindset and being in the zone that TOTALLY fucked with me and honestly where I'm normally confident and assured, there were definitely points where I came across than being much less than that.

We made it to the bedroom and had a very passionate make-out session and she was aroused by me choking her and kissing/biting her neck and rubbing her pussy through her clothes. Just before that, I told her to lie down on her back and she asked me "Are you going to hurt me?". Clearly that was her way of giving me the green light to escalate but I was so concerned about "comfort" that I stupidly didn't pick up on this right away and tried to be reassuring in saying "No". I recognised the fuck up almost immediately and so I whispered in her ear "not unless you want me to". Anyway, it didn't work. What she needed here was a clear, confident and unambiguous affirmative answer and in hindsight with the lack of that, for me just do something by way of "actions speaking louder than words". I pulled her hair and choked her and she was aroused but clearly not enough to get her to take those clothes off...

I'm annoyed with myself for not handling this whole situation better but you live and learn. Of course it's annoying as fuck after all that time of creating a very different impression, she said that on the day but it was my misstep that caused that and everything else that's caused a loss in value since. The good news is she was clearly so mega-invested before and I live in hope that she got enough on the date that she's still here, still saying she'll meet again and with the help of the app, it feels like I'm slowly re-establishing my value again.

But my question is a more general one that can't really be answered by the app and that is, how can you go about managing and turning around backward rationalization in this sort of situation?

Update - unfortunately for me, the bad news is you were right on this one bro. She also thought I was being serious. The better news is she's used it productively in terms of moving things forward to allow me to move things forward by basically inviting me to build some comfort. Amongst other chit-chat, she asked me "What has been on your mind lately...what do you want to know about me?"

At that point, I toyed with actually soft closing. Like saying "I was actually just being sarky. My bad! But we should defo get to know each other over a bottle of wine" or something like that and I think for anyone else...probably the right thing to do. But I felt that I needed to compensate for earlier over-gaminess/build a bit more comfort for that to go optimally so I just said she didn't wanna know what had been "on my mind lately" to be congruent but it would be good to know what music she's into. Then when she replied, I applied a frame that it was essential for me to know for all sorts of compatibility reasons...

So we're just vibing on that. Comfort level is defo up because it's instant and positive replies and her asking questions back. I now have to just find an ample opportunity to either soft close or number close...which ever works out as most appropriate in the moment, I suppose. Plan is soft close with a variation of the above line.

Fair point and good text...but that was an 'agree and exaggerate' response to what I took to be a shit test. Mine was supposed to be sarky...hopefully that came across to her

Alex, thanks very much for the text suggestion...it done the trick and the response was decent - if shit-testy - too. Your text suggestion was perfect tho and defo not what I was gonna go with (was probably gonna go with "Yo sexy") so nice one man, appreciate it.

For what it's worth though, you're definitely correct about coming off as gamey, bitter and passive aggressive which wasn't my intention at all because I was a bit irked but it wasn't that big a deal to me...I just didn't want her to start thinking it was anything other than a fuck date/reward non-compliance following the flake when she was like "what happened to the wine and dine" and I think I just plain misunderstood her last text. Also, if I had to use an emoji when I said "cool story bro" - a laughing one would have been better as the eyebrow one made it seem...a bit salty, when it was supposed to be a "pffft so you are" sorta vibe. But you live and learn and thankfully I seem to have gotten away with it this time.

Anyway, now focusing on building a bit of comfort seeing as its my perceived value that's compelled her to respond this time. I'll do that for the next few messages, soft close, probs hard close then number close. Hopefully it works out.

Thanks again !

Haha! Yeah...it's not an Edinburgh thing, it's defo just a me thing. Tbf it was only a couple of messages and she seemed to dig it at the time so no real harm done with that in this particular instance. This particular girl was thankfully intrigued by it, I think. That said, I take the point.

I agree with the comfort thing - it was on my mind, but it seemed like we were on a roll although tbf she did try to slightly broaden the conversation by asking about relationship drama (that was a no-go though, pretty sure that would have impaired the interaction) and asking if I'd risked meeting anyone since being single - not a massive divergence, but still enough that my gamey "overcoming concerns" response clearly fell flat.

From here, I think - re-engage - if she responds - focus on comfort, re-establish some value after 2 or 3 messages, soft close then either hard close or number close.

Agreed on the number thing and there were a few opportunities to do it, but in the moment I was trying to think about the war rather than the battle so it was always going to be the next text after the one I actually sent.

But okay, that's a vote for re-engage. I think simply wait a few days then literally restart the conversation with a standard opener or a meme. Not sure a call out really works here, the best one would probably be "Are you always this difficult to make plans with?" but that arguably should have been the last text! I'm realising that last text blew...hard and is possibly doubly-bad as the way I said it with the " :( " made it look like I was actually sad. Anyway, I've only made life difficult for myself because the very act of re-engaging now will come across as needy and I need to build comfort AND re-establish some lost value.

So yeah, short and sweet 'Yo sexy' or something similar or a meme, I think.

But thanks for your feedback bro!