Yeah, it felt right in the moment. One weakness o

mark n

Yeah, it felt right in the moment. One weakness of mine that Ive been trying to improve on is dating retention after first date. I never do crib dates, 100% bar dates which nearly always result in sex after. But Ive found 2 problems with this approach: 1) some girls who weren't expecting to have sex get totally in their head the next day about feeling slutty and want nothing more to do with me, 2) Ive often come off as cold and distant after the date. The latter has resulted in some truly vicious blowback which I wont get into here, but definitely left a scar on me. I guess my texting here was me overcompensating for that, aka by sending her validation as I didnt wanna make her feel like a slut, and also just trying to not be distant. But retention is my biggest problem in game/dating man and idk why.

For the "I have no one to stare at rn" comment, I was actually with another girl at the time and felt bad it took so long to respond because she is (was) literally a 30 second texter at the time. Also I bailed on the date 2 plans with gym girl so I could hang with another girl, so I think my texting is partly my subconscious trying to not feel bad about it. But these are all good points you make.

I agree on falling back. It makes intuitive sense to me. I'm guessing if our upcoming plans fall through and she doesn't offer a reschedule the plan is just to go cold turkey completely (and not even try for future plans)? Ive had this strategy work for me in the past with other girls, Im somewhat surprised by your feedback that I overvalidated her as I guess I wasn't expecting that to be the main culprit... but it does make sense. Damn

Any particular way you'd approach confirmation of the next date? Would you even try to confirm for our upcoming plans? Or just kinda drop off and let the frame re-establish itself over a longer period of time as I create distance. On the one hand I wonder if trying to confirm is a subtle form of validation that she would inevitably bail on anyway. Vs letting it pass and me disappearing and letting her re-engage which might make for more solid plans.. thoughts?

Mark Thomas

For retention, how long do you wait before re-engaging? Taking too long may make girls feel like you wanted a ONS. Personally, I reach out 2-3 days after with a form of callback referencing the night. Also Alex's "Last night was fire emoji line" the day after works well and gets the convo going to then set up the next date.... All the beauty validation should be given during or post sex and increasing over time with the more investment you get from her. Investment meaning what she does for you, or giving a genuine compliment, something no one's really said about her that you noticed

To not attempting future plans if the current plans fall thru - that's correct. You can possibly get it back over time with what I advised prior by not responding, but who knows how long that'll take, so no point in getting so fixated on her. In the dating game, we'll take a lot of L's, and the best way to move forward is to learn from that and use those lessons to get a new girl & keep her as well.

You can still try to confirm the next date, and her response will tell you what you need to know. Like her saying maybe or postponing/rescheduling with no specific date should be the end of it. All the wishy washy shit would be just her stringing you along

You can start the convo with gym talk, then ask if you're still good for whatever day

mark n

Lastly, do you think one of the reasons she's been flaking is because she's just very much in her head that all this relationship will be about is just sex? And that I should try 1 final attempt to suss out the problem? (think an Alex text like: "Are you always this difficult to make plans with" etc)

In person, the vibe is fine. People comment on how its clear she likes me. But it just drops dead over text when we try to make plans aka hang out at my house (even though we've already done that stuff)

mark n

So she ended up flaking on the first date (with an attempt to reschedule) and then flaking on the rescheduled date. At this point I just plan to move on and not even give her a batting eye anymore. Its a shame because the initial investment was so high but it is what it is.

In the future, whats your general approach to girls who seem 'obsessively' into you with low self confidence? Like to the extent where she was making the comments above ("I can't believe youre hanging out with me", "you definitely are not gonna call me after tonight", etc). My approach here was try to "bring her up" a bit (hence my validation) but my friend said he doesn't think thats necessary, he said just kinda shrug it off and dont pay it any mind. Any general thoughts on that?

mark n

Yeah, I do wait too long. Or don't follow up at all sometimes. I dont mean to be cold / distant but I guess I need to address that more proactively.

As for this girl, I'll try to confirm the day before via text since I prob wont see her at gym that day. I did see her today at gym though. I tried to be more normal/aloof and more grounded as opposed to how I was acting before, and it does lead me to think that overvalidation was the issue moreso than another guy (although that could still be a thing, who knows). I could tell the frame was much better and she totally dropped the ego she had just a few days ago, was persistent in trying to start/restart convo, etc etc.

I also asked my friend who knows her better and he did mention that she really hates guys who chase her and really wants to be the one chasing. Not that this isn't the case for most girls, I guess I just underestimated how much chasing I was subtly conveying by just being complimentary. In my mind, this was an insecure girl who I wanted to build up to be a little more normal around me hence me being so nice, but I guess that simply didnt have the desired effect I imagined it would. Thanks for reminding me of some fundamentals man. Who knows where this goes / how long it needs but it is what it is.

Frames of our interaction have changed a bit during dating